Liberty's Light

A Christian forum dedicated to the discussion of how a nation based entirely off of biblical principles ought to be like. We believe that Righteousness Exalteth a Nation, and that God's righteous hand is necessary for the blessing of any nation.
 
HomeHome  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  MemberlistMemberlist  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  

Share | 
 

 Sufficiency of the Scriptures

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
AuthorMessage
Jonathan S.
Moderator
Moderator


Male Number of posts : 58
Age : 25
Location : Indiana
Registration date : 08/01/2009

PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:35 pm

Sorry, Peter. I should have explained myself more fully. Here is the whole passage:

Isaiah 33:18-22
18Thine heart shall meditate terror. Where is the scribe? where is the receiver? where is he that counted the towers?

19Thou shalt not see a fierce people, a people of a deeper speech than thou canst perceive; of a stammering tongue, that thou canst not understand.

20Look upon Zion, the city of our solemnities: thine eyes shall see Jerusalem a quiet habitation, a tabernacle that shall not be taken down; not one of the stakes thereof shall ever be removed, neither shall any of the cords thereof be broken.

21
But there the glorious LORD will be unto us a place of broad rivers and streams; wherein shall go no galley with oars, neither shall gallant ship pass thereby.

22For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; he will save us.


I think that in context, this passage is saying that the in the Day of the LORD, the Israelites will no longer be under the control of foreign kings. To call this a command about government makes no sense. Could you show me where Teen Pact uses this verse?

_________________
~Jonathan S.
For God has not given us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power and love and discipline. --2 Tim 1:7
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Peter G.
Honor roll member
Honor roll member


Male Number of posts : 209
Age : 24
Location : Where ever a debate is, I'm in the midst
Registration date : 09/01/2009

PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:11 am

It would help if you did explain yourself fully. Especially with some statements you made. Wink

Um, about Teen Pact. It was in the homework that was assigned to us before we got there. This is the question that they asked us regarding the verse.

"Considering Isaiah 33:22 and the definitions of the words "legislative," "executive," and "judicial," what is...three branches of government." (the reason for the dots is that my paper was photocopied badly, and cut the rest off, so I can't read what the rest would have said. I think what goes in the place of the elipse is, "the purpose of the")

And in reply to the verses, if what you say is right, that the Israelites will no longer under the control of foriegn kings, (With the verses leading up to verse 22) and then in 22 Isaiah is saying that God is our judge, our lawgiver, and king. Would you not agree? (I'm going by this step by step so it will be easy to follow hopefully.)

In Christ,
Peter G.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Dr. Hipopótamo
Honor roll member
Honor roll member


Male Number of posts : 131
Age : 23
Location : USA
Registration date : 11/02/2009

PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Sun Dec 06, 2009 3:56 pm

Peter,
You are right that this passage describes God as our Judge, our lawgiver, and King. But I'm not sure I see how this is a direct command to every government in every situation to have these three branches of government (if that's what you're saying; if not, then feel free to correct me.) Look at this passage, for example.

1 Samuel 12:12 (King James Version)

12And when ye saw that Nahash the king of the children of Ammon came against you, ye said unto me, Nay; but a king shall reign over us: when the LORD your God was your king.

Samuel was making a contrast between having God as king, and asking for a human king. He doesn't say "Because,"; he says, "Even though" (or in King James, "when"). It is also interesting to note that when God instituted the Israelite government, He appointed Moses as a judge, but He did not appoint a lawgiver or a king.

Now, I'm not saying that this passage forbids human governments from having these three branches, because it's not in the context of such a command. It's in the context of God rescuing His people. What I'm saying is that A) The context makes it clear that it's not a command for all governments, and B) If it were in the context of a command, it wouldn't be a command for all governments to have these three branches of government.

_________________
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. (Ephesians 6: 12)
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Peter G.
Honor roll member
Honor roll member


Male Number of posts : 209
Age : 24
Location : Where ever a debate is, I'm in the midst
Registration date : 09/01/2009

PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Sun Dec 06, 2009 4:39 pm

I beileve the main point against what I am saying is that what I am saying will apply to all governemnts. Not so. This verse has thwo meanings that I see.

First, that a biblical Government should have three parts to it. The three branches we have now.

Second, that God is made up of three persons, and each one is given one of those duties. For example, God is our king, the Holy Spirit is our judge. And the Son (Jesus) is the lawgiver.

Now, these are interpertations that I see. There could be more, and mine could be right. (I believe that the first is correct, the second is a little far fetched.) I will go into more detail after Johnathan replies.

Also, I agree that it will not apply to all governments. And also, that God in history has used one, two, or all three of those three branches of government correct? (I'm not sure, please correct me on this. Very Happy) And also, God normally creates things, (especially us) in His image. Why not government?

In Christ,
Peter G.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Dr. Hipopótamo
Honor roll member
Honor roll member


Male Number of posts : 131
Age : 23
Location : USA
Registration date : 11/02/2009

PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:19 pm

Peter,
I may be misunderstanding what you're trying to say. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you on the term "Biblical government." You say that the "three branches command" (if it is a command) doesn't apply to all governments, but that a Biblical government should obey it. Right? Or is that not what you're saying? What I'm thinking is that a Biblical government means the kind of government that every nation should have, according to God's intentions for government. Thus, anything that a Biblical government should do is something every government should do, whether they do it or not. So any command that applies to a Biblical government will in theory apply to all governments. However, your post made me wonder if I'm misunderstanding what you mean by "Biblical government." So what do you mean?

In Christ,
Daniel

_________________
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. (Ephesians 6: 12)
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Jonathan S.
Moderator
Moderator


Male Number of posts : 58
Age : 25
Location : Indiana
Registration date : 08/01/2009

PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:13 pm

Peter,

The main point that I see against your position is that you are calling this a command, when it is clearly a description of God (i.e.: He is our King, Lawgiver, and Judge--which, by the way, would have all been synonymous in that day). I'm willing to go so far as to say that this may suggest having three branches of government, but it is by no means a command of God that we must have three branches. So in fact, this passage supports my main opinion, which is that many biblical principles can be used to build a government on, but it is naive to say that the Bible includes unequivocal, exclusive commands for exactly how to run our government. Does that make sense?

P.S. my name is Jonathan, not Johnathan. Very Happy

_________________
~Jonathan S.
For God has not given us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power and love and discipline. --2 Tim 1:7
Back to top Go down
View user profile
caleb
Moderator
Moderator


Male Number of posts : 231
Age : 24
Location : Central Indiana
Registration date : 14/03/2009

PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:02 am

Peter,

I have to somewhat side with Jonathan and the Dr. on this. The passage in Isaiah is not prescriptive of how to structure our governments. We've already determined in the legislative and law threads that a legislature is not a biblical concept. Man cannot make laws because that would put man above the law. The passage in Isaiah is descriptive of God. He along is the only lawgiver.

But back to the topic of this thread. I submit that all of Scripture if fully sufficient to show us how a nation, church, and family should operate, what it should look like, and what should be done in every kind of situation that will arise. I'm reading a book called Family Reformation by Scott Brown who take John Calvin's writings and shows how the Bible is fully sufficient for what a family is and how it should operate. The Bible gives clear teaching on marriage, modesty, manhood, womanhood, childhood, courtship, child raising, widows, divorces, fertility, sanctity of life, etc. Every kind of situation that would effect the family is addressed in Scripture. The same can be said of the government and the church.

(Notice I'm saying 'kind of situation.' Just like money is the root of all kinds of evil does not mean that money is the root of all evil; so Scripture is sufficient for every kind of situation. Though it doesn't tell you which college to go to, it tells you how to choose which college to go to.)

I will quote two paragraphs from the aforementioned book in regards to Scripture being sufficient.

"Calvin's strict adherence to the Scriptures was the genius of the Reformation in Geneva. Instead of thinking that the Bible was only adequate for certain circumstances, Calvin regarded it as the supreme reference point for all situations. Calvin believed that the Bible contained all that was necessary for life and godliness, and as a result, the whole of Scripture was scanned for answers to every question and for solutions to every problem. The battle cry of the reformers was "sola Scriptura" or "Scripture Alone!" This meant that they dealt with difficult texts and did not skirt their clear meanings for the sake of their traditions.

Holding the Bible to be the only reliable sourcebook for answers to family questions, Calvin was relentless in removing anything in family life that did not find a pattern or command in Scripture, and embracing all which did."

I want to quote 2 Timothy 3:16-17 because I think verse 17 clearly shows us the sufficiency of the Scriptures for every area and kind of situation in everything.

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

We've determined that running a nation is a biblical mandate and a good works. Thus, Scripture thoroughly furnishes us, making us perfect to run a nation. The only thing we need in order to know how to run a nation is the Bible.

There is a conference in Cincinnati, Ohio called the Sufficiency of the Scripture Conference hosted by the National Center for Family Integrated Churches. They have speakers like Paul Washer, Voddie Boucham, Doug Philips, Scott Brown, Ken Ham, and others. I really wanted to go, but will not be able to. I am hoping to get the lectures on CD though, if they will record them. If I do, I can post up anything else I learn on this subject. You all may want to google some of the above key words yourself, though, to get further information on the subject.

To God be the glory,
-Caleb
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sir Emeth Mimetes
Admin
Admin


Male Number of posts : 446
Age : 27
Location : Cork, co. Cork, Ireland
Registration date : 07/01/2009

PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:37 am

Caleb hit the nail on the head (to borrow the colloquialism) when he quoted 2 Timothy 3:16-17

2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.


That is where the all comes in. That is where government comes in. Influencing a government to follow its Godly restrictions and commands is a good work, especially since God instituted government.

Now we need to figure out how it helps us to perfectly guide governments in a godly way.

_________________
I am Sir Emeth Mimetes (knighted to the warfare of truth by the calling of Christ, the Master of my order), and thus, though poorly is it ever met by my feeble abilities, is my mission: to combat those ideas that are rooted in mindsets that are contrary to my Master.
May I never forsake abiding in Him, and may His ways never cease to thrive within my heart, for He only is my strength and hope.
note: emeth is Hebrew for truth, right, faithful;
mimetes is Greek for an imitator or follower.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://siremethmimetes.wordpress.com
Peter G.
Honor roll member
Honor roll member


Male Number of posts : 209
Age : 24
Location : Where ever a debate is, I'm in the midst
Registration date : 09/01/2009

PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:38 pm

Okay, I think I need to clearify something. I do not mean ALL governments. I mean that it is Biblical to have those three parts apart of our government. And Jonathan (sorry for misspelling your name by the way. Embarassed) even admitted that it could pertain to government! That was my whole point! I don't mean that we have to have our government that way, or even that this verse is a command of how to have a government. I was only pointing out that this verse refers to how it could relate to governments. Does what I say make sense now? And would everyone agree that this verse relates to government, and it could be a reference about governments? (not saying it is 100 percent, just is it logically possible?)

And is there an illistration of a legislative body in the Bible?

And I agree with Caleb and what he said about the Scriptures. Very Happy (I was only being the devil's advocate earlier... Wink)

In Christ,
Peter G.

P.S. It seems like everyone is against me! Wink
Back to top Go down
View user profile
caleb
Moderator
Moderator


Male Number of posts : 231
Age : 24
Location : Central Indiana
Registration date : 14/03/2009

PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:57 pm

No, I don't think that this passage is about governments. I think that it is a descriptive verse about God. The passage is about God and His kingdom, not anything to do with earthly kingdoms.

-Caleb
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Peter G.
Honor roll member
Honor roll member


Male Number of posts : 209
Age : 24
Location : Where ever a debate is, I'm in the midst
Registration date : 09/01/2009

PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:01 pm

I asked COULD it have something to do with governments. Besides, God normally institutes or creates things someway in His image. (man, nature, animals) Therefore, I think He would also create a government in His image. Besides, when we try to follow who God is, would that not be the best thing? I mean if God is our king, should we not also have a "king" or president? Because we should model things in His image. And one of His images is being king. Would you not argee?

In Christ,
Peter G.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sir Emeth Mimetes
Admin
Admin


Male Number of posts : 446
Age : 27
Location : Cork, co. Cork, Ireland
Registration date : 07/01/2009

PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:42 am

The discussion of Isaiah 33:22 is off topic, as it does not address the above focus of the discussion.

_________________
I am Sir Emeth Mimetes (knighted to the warfare of truth by the calling of Christ, the Master of my order), and thus, though poorly is it ever met by my feeble abilities, is my mission: to combat those ideas that are rooted in mindsets that are contrary to my Master.
May I never forsake abiding in Him, and may His ways never cease to thrive within my heart, for He only is my strength and hope.
note: emeth is Hebrew for truth, right, faithful;
mimetes is Greek for an imitator or follower.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://siremethmimetes.wordpress.com
caleb
Moderator
Moderator


Male Number of posts : 231
Age : 24
Location : Central Indiana
Registration date : 14/03/2009

PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:58 am

Sir Emeth Mimetes wrote:
The discussion of Isaiah 33:22 is off topic, as it does not address the above focus of the discussion.

Jay is right. This discussion belongs in the Forms of Government thread. This topic is to be discussing whether the Bible is fully sufficient to show us how to set up and run a nation's government, or whether it provides only a good start, but does not address every kind of situation.

To God be the glory,
-Caleb
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sir Emeth Mimetes
Admin
Admin


Male Number of posts : 446
Age : 27
Location : Cork, co. Cork, Ireland
Registration date : 07/01/2009

PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:30 am

caleb wrote:
Sir Emeth Mimetes wrote:
The discussion of Isaiah 33:22 is off topic, as it does not address the above focus of the discussion.

Jay is right. This discussion belongs in the Forms of Government thread. This topic is to be discussing whether the Bible is fully sufficient to show us how to set up and run a nation's government, or whether it provides only a good start, but does not address every kind of situation.

To God be the glory,
-Caleb

Actually it belongs in LL2. Smile

Does 2 Timothy 3:16-17 provide sufficient support for the sufficiency of the guidance of Scripture for helping us to righteously influence nations? If so, which I believe it does, how does it guide us: in what ways in what amounts?

_________________
I am Sir Emeth Mimetes (knighted to the warfare of truth by the calling of Christ, the Master of my order), and thus, though poorly is it ever met by my feeble abilities, is my mission: to combat those ideas that are rooted in mindsets that are contrary to my Master.
May I never forsake abiding in Him, and may His ways never cease to thrive within my heart, for He only is my strength and hope.
note: emeth is Hebrew for truth, right, faithful;
mimetes is Greek for an imitator or follower.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://siremethmimetes.wordpress.com
Peter G.
Honor roll member
Honor roll member


Male Number of posts : 209
Age : 24
Location : Where ever a debate is, I'm in the midst
Registration date : 09/01/2009

PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:57 am

First, I would just like to appoligize to everyone for going off on a tanget not applicable to this thread. So, Sorry. Very Happy

Second, I believe 2 Timothy 3:16-17 does provide for the sufficiency of the Scripture for all good works. And it will guide us in different ways. Either through wisdom said, (like the Songs of Solomon book) or through commands found throughout the Bible. (A lot of what Paul said would fall under this) To what extent? Well, I don't think God would write something that would tell us how to handle a situation to the fullest extent. Why? Because then we wouldn't have to rely on Him to get through life. We would rely on His word more then anything. Do you guys agree with me?

In Christ,
Peter G.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
caleb
Moderator
Moderator


Male Number of posts : 231
Age : 24
Location : Central Indiana
Registration date : 14/03/2009

PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:25 am

Peter G. wrote:
To what extent? Well, I don't think God would write something that would tell us how to handle a situation to the fullest extent. Why? Because then we wouldn't have to rely on Him to get through life. We would rely on His word more then anything. Do you guys agree with me?

In Christ,
Peter G.

What?!?! We rely on Him through His Word. God's Word is His only revelation to us except for the Living Word, His Son. We learn what God would have us do in a situation through His Word. We don't pray for a long time and wait to hear some special revelation from God.

2 Peter 1:3-4- "According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."

He has already given us everything we need for life and godliness through His revealed Words (living and written.) Of course we rely on God more than anything, but when it comes to getting revelation in knowing what to do, we go to that where He has already spoken to us: the Scriptures. So to answer your question, I don't agree with the part of your post that I quoted.

To God be the glory,
-Caleb
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Peter G.
Honor roll member
Honor roll member


Male Number of posts : 209
Age : 24
Location : Where ever a debate is, I'm in the midst
Registration date : 09/01/2009

PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:41 am

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough Caleb. (Though if you still disagree with me then that is fine.)

First, I would agree that God's Word, the Bible, is a place where God has given instruction for all good works. And I would also argee that we rely on God through His word.

However, there comes a time, that if we always seek the Scritpure, then after time, we will start to foget to seek God about the answer. And we should above all, seek God about things. Although God does have something in the Scripture about every good work, the problem with this is the ability to find what the Bible has to say about the good work. Also, if we seek God first, then seek what He has to say in the Scriptures, our focus would be more towards what God has to say. Moreover, when we only seek what His word says, we start to forget who wrote it, and forget to ask God for His wisdom for each good work. Our focus should be on first God, then what He has to say in His word. Otherwise, our focus is not on God, or what He says, just what a "good book" says about life. And God will slowly leave the picture when we seek answers...

But in contrast to what I just said, we should seek what God has to say about good works in life, however, only when we have sought God first. Do you agree with me now Caleb?

In Christ,
Peter G.

P.S. After you post Caleb, and we still don't agree, then we should take the arguement to PM's, that is unless Jay says otherwise.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sir Emeth Mimetes
Admin
Admin


Male Number of posts : 446
Age : 27
Location : Cork, co. Cork, Ireland
Registration date : 07/01/2009

PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:21 am

Hmm... Peter, you are separating seeking God and seeking His Word. There is really not much of a difference. Like Caleb said, seeking God's Word is seeking God. You cannot put God's Word over God, because God is His Word. See John 1 and many other verses for support of that.

_________________
I am Sir Emeth Mimetes (knighted to the warfare of truth by the calling of Christ, the Master of my order), and thus, though poorly is it ever met by my feeble abilities, is my mission: to combat those ideas that are rooted in mindsets that are contrary to my Master.
May I never forsake abiding in Him, and may His ways never cease to thrive within my heart, for He only is my strength and hope.
note: emeth is Hebrew for truth, right, faithful;
mimetes is Greek for an imitator or follower.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://siremethmimetes.wordpress.com
Peter G.
Honor roll member
Honor roll member


Male Number of posts : 209
Age : 24
Location : Where ever a debate is, I'm in the midst
Registration date : 09/01/2009

PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:31 am

Sir Emeth Mimetes wrote:
Hmm... Peter, you are separating seeking God and seeking His Word. There is really not much of a difference. Like Caleb said, seeking God's Word is seeking God. You cannot put God's Word over God, because God is His Word. See John 1 and many other verses for support of that.

Mmm... Possibly... You could be right, but I'm still not completely convienced... But regarding John 1:1,

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

This is not talking about the bible. Almost all theologians agree that this verse is talk about Jesus. Or to paraphrase, "In the beginning was Jesus, and Jesus was with God, and Jesus was God." This would actually be evidence for the trinity.

In Christ,
Peter G.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
caleb
Moderator
Moderator


Male Number of posts : 231
Age : 24
Location : Central Indiana
Registration date : 14/03/2009

PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:54 pm

Peter,

What do you mean when you say "We must seek what God has to say," or "Once we have sought God"? How is it different than praying, asking God for wisdom, and then searching His Word to find the answers?

-Caleb
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Peter G.
Honor roll member
Honor roll member


Male Number of posts : 209
Age : 24
Location : Where ever a debate is, I'm in the midst
Registration date : 09/01/2009

PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:51 pm

caleb wrote:
Peter,

What do you mean when you say "We must seek what God has to say," or "Once we have sought God"? How is it different than praying, asking God for wisdom, and then searching His Word to find the answers?

-Caleb

You answered it yourself.

In Christ,
Peter G.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Dr. Hipopótamo
Honor roll member
Honor roll member


Male Number of posts : 131
Age : 23
Location : USA
Registration date : 11/02/2009

PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:16 pm

caleb wrote:
Peter,

I have to somewhat side with Jonathan and the Dr. on this. The passage in Isaiah is not prescriptive of how to structure our governments. We've already determined in the legislative and law threads that a legislature is not a biblical concept. Man cannot make laws because that would put man above the law. The passage in Isaiah is descriptive of God. He along is the only lawgiver.

But back to the topic of this thread. I submit that all of Scripture if fully sufficient to show us how a nation, church, and family should operate, what it should look like, and what should be done in every kind of situation that will arise. I'm reading a book called Family Reformation by Scott Brown who take John Calvin's writings and shows how the Bible is fully sufficient for what a family is and how it should operate. The Bible gives clear teaching on marriage, modesty, manhood, womanhood, childhood, courtship, child raising, widows, divorces, fertility, sanctity of life, etc. Every kind of situation that would effect the family is addressed in Scripture. The same can be said of the government and the church.

(Notice I'm saying 'kind of situation.' Just like money is the root of all kinds of evil does not mean that money is the root of all evil; so Scripture is sufficient for every kind of situation. Though it doesn't tell you which college to go to, it tells you how to choose which college to go to.)

I will quote two paragraphs from the aforementioned book in regards to Scripture being sufficient.

"Calvin's strict adherence to the Scriptures was the genius of the Reformation in Geneva. Instead of thinking that the Bible was only adequate for certain circumstances, Calvin regarded it as the supreme reference point for all situations. Calvin believed that the Bible contained all that was necessary for life and godliness, and as a result, the whole of Scripture was scanned for answers to every question and for solutions to every problem. The battle cry of the reformers was "sola Scriptura" or "Scripture Alone!" This meant that they dealt with difficult texts and did not skirt their clear meanings for the sake of their traditions.

Holding the Bible to be the only reliable sourcebook for answers to family questions, Calvin was relentless in removing anything in family life that did not find a pattern or command in Scripture, and embracing all which did."

I want to quote 2 Timothy 3:16-17 because I think verse 17 clearly shows us the sufficiency of the Scriptures for every area and kind of situation in everything.

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

We've determined that running a nation is a biblical mandate and a good works. Thus, Scripture thoroughly furnishes us, making us perfect to run a nation. The only thing we need in order to know how to run a nation is the Bible.

There is a conference in Cincinnati, Ohio called the Sufficiency of the Scripture Conference hosted by the National Center for Family Integrated Churches. They have speakers like Paul Washer, Voddie Boucham, Doug Philips, Scott Brown, Ken Ham, and others. I really wanted to go, but will not be able to. I am hoping to get the lectures on CD though, if they will record them. If I do, I can post up anything else I learn on this subject. You all may want to google some of the above key words yourself, though, to get further information on the subject.

To God be the glory,
-Caleb
(emphasis added)

Caleb,
I agree with much of what you say here. I especially like your analogy about college, because I think it fits right into the discussion about government. The Bible doesn't tell us which college to go to, however, we should make the choice based on Biblical principles. In the same way, I think, the Bible doesn't tell us whether or not the government should have a hand in building roads, so we should decide based on Biblical principles. Also, even though we are deciding on colleges with Biblical principles in mind, we may also read books like "Choosing the Right College" and read about different colleges, their history, and how they've affected students.
Similarly, I think we should make decisions like whether or not to build roads based on Biblical principles, and also look at different governments that do and do not build roads, look at the history of how governments started building roads, and the effect of government building or not building roads. Much of this might be for LL2, but we can still discuss the groundwork of Biblical principles on this forum.

_________________
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. (Ephesians 6: 12)
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Peter G.
Honor roll member
Honor roll member


Male Number of posts : 209
Age : 24
Location : Where ever a debate is, I'm in the midst
Registration date : 09/01/2009

PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:10 pm

That is also something I think I mentioned and agree with. God will not tell us how to handle every single situation in the Bible, though the Bible might give us principles to live by that can be applied to more then one instance.

In Christ,
Peter G.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
caleb
Moderator
Moderator


Male Number of posts : 231
Age : 24
Location : Central Indiana
Registration date : 14/03/2009

PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:34 am

Dr. Hipopotamo,
The Bible gives clear instructions into the process of deciding which college to go to without listing every college and a five star rating system. It tells us how to choose the college. We don't need a "Choosing a College for Dummies" manual because the Bible is fully sufficient in this area. It can be fully sufficient without needing to list every college or scholarship program and telling us which ones to go to or take.

In the case of roads, the Bible doesn't tell us how to build the road (as in the process of construction) or what kind of road to build, but it does tell us who is to build the road. The Bible is clear on who has the jurisdiction and responsibility to build roads. But it's not going to give a step by step instruction manuel on how to go about clearing the land, what materials to use, how many layers to make, etc. The Bible is fully sufficient in telling us all we need to know about road building without having to go into engineering techniques. We can learn this from those who have built roads before. Even so, we use Biblical principles in the engineering process as well. (Hard work, honesty, good quality, wise stewardship, time for family, etc.)

Here is what Webster said about sufficiency:
SUFFI'CIENCY, n. The state of being adequate to the end proposed.
1. Qualification for any purpose.
2. Competence; adequate substance or means.
3. Supply equal to wants; ample stock or fund.
4. Ability; adequate power.

The Scriptures are these for every kind of situation.

Peter (& the Dr.),
The Bible will tell us how to handle every single kind of situation. Every single situation will be covered in Scripture based on its kind. Just as Noah took every kind of creature onto the Ark without taking every single species. From those kinds, we get every single species of animals we have today. OK, so Noah didn't bring a Labrador retriever on the Ark, but the Lab you (might) have can be traced back to a kind of dog that was on the Ark. Every kind of animal was there, and every specific animal we have now was covered in the Ark. So too, the Bible addresses every kind of situation without needing to address every single specific situation that will ever occur. But, every specific situation we come across has been covered in Scripture. We go back to its kind, to figure out how to handle and act in each situation.

To God be the glory,
-Caleb
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Peter G.
Honor roll member
Honor roll member


Male Number of posts : 209
Age : 24
Location : Where ever a debate is, I'm in the midst
Registration date : 09/01/2009

PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:07 am

Caleb, that's pretty much what I was saying. I was saying that God will not fully tell us how to handle every situation. But it will tell us how to handle every kind with principles or commands God has established in the Bible.

In Christ,
Peter G.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   

Back to top Go down
 
Sufficiency of the Scriptures
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 2 of 3Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Liberty's Light :: Biblical Government :: Align-
Jump to: