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 Sufficiency of the Scriptures

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Sir Emeth Mimetes
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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:28 am

Whether or not who is responsible for building roads and utilities are mandated by Scripture is determined by whether Scripture does or not. I am sure you will agree with that. Smile Therefore, a study regarding what the Bible says on this subject is needed, and is in progress of being completed. This thread is here to determine the sufficiency of Scripture for guiding us in government, and I think we have done that sufficiently (pun intended).

Something that we can now discuss here is the degree to which inferred and deduced instructions in the Bible are binding to us. If the Bible mentions something in passing when discussing something else, which thing mentioned connects with another side note elsewhere, both working together to logically construct a definition of something, how binding is that definition? If it is not binding, then I submit to you that we are not trusting the inerrancy, validity, and supremacy of God's Word.

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I am Sir Emeth Mimetes (knighted to the warfare of truth by the calling of Christ, the Master of my order), and thus, though poorly is it ever met by my feeble abilities, is my mission: to combat those ideas that are rooted in mindsets that are contrary to my Master.
May I never forsake abiding in Him, and may His ways never cease to thrive within my heart, for He only is my strength and hope.
note: emeth is Hebrew for truth, right, faithful;
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Dr. Hipopótamo
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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:00 pm

Here's a passage that has been used a lot in the discussion of what Scripture is sufficient for:

16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Now, if the government building or not building roads is a morality issue, then it makes sense from this passage that the Bible would say whether or not it is O.K. However, if it is not a morality issue, then there is no reason to think that the Bible would say who should do it.

What I believe you are doing is assuming that there is a definite right or wrong to who should build roads, and then coming to this passage with that assumption. You then see that scripture is sufficient for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness. This means that the Bible is sufficient for every right or wrong issue. And so therefore, the Bible will say whether or not the government should build roads. And then, of course, if the Bible says whether or not the government should build roads, then it is a definite right or wrong issue.
This is circular reasoning, and doesn't really prove that this is a right or wrong issue. What you have to do is look for Scriptures that might give a clue to whether it is a right or wrong issue.

-Daniel

Edit: Daniel, I'm really sorry I messed up your post. I think this is most of it, but I know I took out some of it in writing my own post. Can you edit this to put in what I took out?
-Caleb

That's all right. It was actually kind of funny. I actually didn't save it, but the main idea was that that sufficiency depends on the end proposed, so what end are you referring to when you say that scripture is sufficient?

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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:24 am

Um... I am confused now. Where did Dr. H.'s post go, and why did he just refute himself, signing it as Caleb? confused

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May I never forsake abiding in Him, and may His ways never cease to thrive within my heart, for He only is my strength and hope.
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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:03 am

I feel for your confusion, I'm confused as well... Did Caleb log on as Dr. H and posted or something? Or was Dr. H acting like Caleb? Or something else?

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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:12 pm

Well, I hope Daniel has his first post saved. Wink This has happened a few times on the Rebelution, and it is probably the same thing that happened here. Neither Daniel or Caleb signed in as the other. What probably happened was Caleb went to quote Daniel's post, but actually ended up accidentally clicking on edit (as he is a moderator and those two buttons are right next to each other). So, really, Caleb just posted his response to what was Daniel's post (the one that is now changed as Caleb's response under Daniel's username). If Daniel saved his post, this can be resolved pretty quickly... if not... well, who has a good memory? Smile

As a side note... it can't be undone either. Smile I hope that helped clear that whole situation up for you guys.

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Hannah

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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:42 am

That makes sense. Thanks Hannah! At least Caleb quoted the principal part of Dr. H.'s post. Smile

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May I never forsake abiding in Him, and may His ways never cease to thrive within my heart, for He only is my strength and hope.
note: emeth is Hebrew for truth, right, faithful;
mimetes is Greek for an imitator or follower.
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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:15 am

I'm confused too; at least till Hannah posted. No, I didn't log on as the Dr., so I must have hit the edit button instead of quote. I'll try to fix it. Sorry everyone.

-Caleb

Edit: OK, I fixed it as best I could. I'm really sorry everyone. I hope this works out alright.


Last edited by caleb on Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:19 am; edited 3 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:18 am

Dr. Hipopótamo wrote:
Here's a passage that has been used a lot in the discussion of what Scripture is sufficient for:

16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Now, if the government building or not building roads is a morality issue, then it makes sense from this passage that the Bible would say whether or not it is O.K. However, if it is not a morality issue, then there is no reason to think that the Bible would say who should do it.

What I believe you are doing is assuming that there is a definite right or wrong to who should build roads, and then coming to this passage with that assumption. You then see that scripture is sufficient for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness. This means that the Bible is sufficient for every right or wrong issue. And so therefore, the Bible will say whether or not the government should build roads. And then, of course, if the Bible says whether or not the government should build roads, then it is a definite right or wrong issue.
This is circular reasoning, and doesn't really prove that this is a right or wrong issue. What you have to do is look for Scriptures that might give a clue to whether it is a right or wrong issue.


We are focused more on verse 17, which says that Scripture thoroughly equips man for every good work.

Matthew 4:4- "But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." (quoting Dt. 8:3)

Mark 7:9- "And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition."

Mark 7:13- "Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye."

These verses show us that the Bible is sufficient for us to live. We are to live by the Scriptures. This doesn't just mean obey the Bible, but that the Word of God was written so that we would know how to live as an individual, family, church, and nation. We must live by the instruction of the Scriptures. We should not throw out the commandments of God for our traditions or the things we are used to. We must go back to the Bible to see how it addresses every kind of situation and change our traditions or ways of doing things if they are contrary to how Scripture says we should do them.

Running a nation (which includes every responsibility or job a government has to do) is a good work, necessary for living, and something we have traditions for doing. Thus, the Bible is fully sufficient in telling us all that we need to know about running a nation. We don't need history, philosophies, or schools of thought, but only the Bible.

To God be the glory,
-Caleb
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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:28 pm

Yes, I'm pretty sure Caleb just pressed the edit button. The only other explanation I could think of would be that he and I are actually the same person posting on two different accounts, and we're like Dr. Jeckl and Mr. Hayde, and he just posted from the wrong account by accident. However, since we have different IP addresses, this seems unlikely.

Unfortunately, I don't think I saved this one. But from what I remember, the part Caleb quoted was one of the most important parts of my post, and I can still remember the main idea of what was deleted. Basically, I pointed out that the definition of sufficiency is based on the end proposed, so I asked Caleb exactly what end he had in mind when he said that the scripture is sufficient for everything.

Now to respond to Caleb's response:

Caleb,
I'm not trying to argue tradition over scripture. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough. What I'm trying to say is that it seems like you're creating an artificial line of which issues have commands in scripture for them and which don't.
Here's what I mean: The Bible contains a clear command that the government should not kill innocent people (the command, "do not murder" applies to everyone, including government). The Bible contains no clear command about "Should government leaders get a paid vacation?" If you believe the Bible has a command about this, then I would like to see where. If you believe that this issue has no command, then you agree that some issues (like whether or not to kill a third of your citizens) are clear-cut right and wrong issues, and that others (like whether the leaders should get a paid vacation) are not right and wrong, but mere decisions that we have to make with the wisdom that God gives us, seeking His glory and the good of the nation. So there is a line between right-and-wrong issues, and non-right-and-wrong issues, even though running a government is a good work. After all, the Bible says Scripture will equip us for every good work, but not necessarily tell us exactly which good works to do or how to do them.

So my main question is "Where do you draw the line?" I try to draw the line by looking in the Bible for which issues have clear commands and which do not. "Thou shalt not murder" is pretty clear, but I don't see any command that says "Thou shalt not give thy president more than two weeks paid vacation, except for illnesses and holidays." Thus I conclude that the one is a right-and-wrong issue, and the other is not. What you don't want to do is to start by asking, "Which issues are definite right-or-wrong issues and which ones are not?" if you decide this before you look at scripture, then when you look in scripture, you will be expecting to find commands on whatever issues you've decided are absolute right-and-wrong issues. And, since you expect to find a command, if you do not see one, you will interpret the absence of a command as a command. This would be a serious mistake, and I want to make sure we're not doing it.

So where do you draw the line? Another way to phrase the question would be "What's the difference between building roads and giving the president a paid vacation." The Bible doesn't directly address either issue, and in the former case, you see the absense of a command as a direct negative command, whereas in the latter case, you do not see any clear, definite command. (Or at least I'm assuming you don't -If I'm wrong please don't hesitate to correct me.)

To God be the Glory,
Daniel

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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:10 am

Dr. Hipopótamo wrote:
I'm not trying to argue tradition over scripture. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough. What I'm trying to say is that it seems like you're creating an artificial line of which issues have commands in scripture for them and which don't.
Here's what I mean: The Bible contains a clear command that the government should not kill innocent people (the command, "do not murder" applies to everyone, including government). The Bible contains no clear command about "Should government leaders get a paid vacation?" If you believe the Bible has a command about this, then I would like to see where. If you believe that this issue has no command, then you agree that some issues (like whether or not to kill a third of your citizens) are clear-cut right and wrong issues, and that others (like whether the leaders should get a paid vacation) are not right and wrong, but mere decisions that we have to make with the wisdom that God gives us, seeking His glory and the good of the nation. So there is a line between right-and-wrong issues, and non-right-and-wrong issues, even though running a government is a good work. After all, the Bible says Scripture will equip us for every good work, but not necessarily tell us exactly which good works to do or how to do them.

So my main question is "Where do you draw the line?" I try to draw the line by looking in the Bible for which issues have clear commands and which do not. "Thou shalt not murder" is pretty clear, but I don't see any command that says "Thou shalt not give thy president more than two weeks paid vacation, except for illnesses and holidays." Thus I conclude that the one is a right-and-wrong issue, and the other is not. What you don't want to do is to start by asking, "Which issues are definite right-or-wrong issues and which ones are not?" if you decide this before you look at scripture, then when you look in scripture, you will be expecting to find commands on whatever issues you've decided are absolute right-and-wrong issues. And, since you expect to find a command, if you do not see one, you will interpret the absence of a command as a command. This would be a serious mistake, and I want to make sure we're not doing it.

So where do you draw the line? Another way to phrase the question would be "What's the difference between building roads and giving the president a paid vacation." The Bible doesn't directly address either issue, and in the former case, you see the absense of a command as a direct negative command, whereas in the latter case, you do not see any clear, definite command. (Or at least I'm assuming you don' -If I'm wrong please don't hesitate to correct me.)

That's been what I've been trying to say this whole time! Augh!

But just a little thing to add to what Daniel said, since there is no clear command or clear-cut action for how to deal with things that are either non-biased towards right or wrong (good works verses bad works), that is really when there are two options. First, we need to seek God and ask for wisdom for whatever we are dealing with. (And this could lead to trouble in the future of our government, but hey. That's for a later thread.) Second, look in the scriptures for principles that could apply for the issue.

In Christ,
Peter G.
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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:56 am

I will forgo posting about many available topics brought up by the preceding posts, and merely point out some pertinent facts (or questions, whatever).

1) Is a 'clear command' necessary to discern God's specific will in a situation? I believe I asked this before in a different way. Can we use logic to deduce from multiple definitions a 'command' or a principle that must guide our actions as much as a 'clear command?' How far do we trust God's Word?

2) This whole subject is rather academic. Whether or not God's Word is sufficient is completely beside the point. The real problem is the authority of God's Word. If God's Word says something: that is the end of the deal. Period. So, if I can present a clear definition from the Bible of government that clearly excludes something (anything, including road-making and utility management) from government's duty, then whether or not the Bible is sufficient is of no account: the question has been answered.

Make sense?

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May I never forsake abiding in Him, and may His ways never cease to thrive within my heart, for He only is my strength and hope.
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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:13 pm

Sir Emeth Mimetes wrote:
1) Is a 'clear command' necessary to discern God's specific will in a situation? I believe I asked this before in a different way. Can we use logic to deduce from multiple definitions a 'command' or a principle that must guide our actions as much as a 'clear command?' How far do we trust God's Word?

If we were given 'clear commands' about everything, we would not be living life. Basically, the Word is our ultimate and perfect guide; it forms our base. From there on, it is about using wisdom, discernment, prayer, and collaboration in determining the rest of our actions. Answering your questions all at once: No, Yes, To no ends.

Sir Emeth Mimetes wrote:
2) This whole subject is rather academic. Whether or not God's Word is sufficient is completely beside the point. The real problem is the authority of God's Word. If God's Word says something: that is the end of the deal. Period. So, if I can present a clear definition from the Bible of government that clearly excludes something (anything, including road-making and utility management) from government's duty, then whether or not the Bible is sufficient is of no account: the question has been answered.

Agreed with this point completely. Smile

Blessings,
Hannah

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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:16 pm

What Hannah said. Smile There's not much more to add here...

To state the obvious very simply and concisely, (that's what I am good at...) if God's word says something, we believe it and follow it. End of story.

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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:28 pm

The hard part is following. Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:04 am

Sir Emeth Mimetes wrote:
Is a 'clear command' necessary to discern God's specific will in a situation?

No, we can find clear principles in Scripture which tells us exactly what to do in every single kind of situation. We use all of the Bible, not just the direct commands.

Sir Emeth Mimetes wrote:
Can we use logic to deduce from multiple definitions a 'command' or a principle that must guide our actions as much as a 'clear command?'

Absolutely. All of Scripture is useful for right living and for running a government for every situation, not just the direct commands. We use principles and commands throughout all of Scripture as our guide.

Sir Emeth Mimetes wrote:
How far do we trust God's Word?


We can trust it fully and solely for how to live or run a nation, church, and/or family. Obviously the Bible isn't God, so we ultimately trust Him alone, but His revelation of His will and how to live life is found in His Word.

Sir Emeth Mimetes wrote:
2) Whether or not God's Word is sufficient is completely beside the point. ...then whether or not the Bible is sufficient is of no account: the question has been answered.

I disagree with this. The sufficiency of the Scriptures is crucial to how we go about determining how to run a nation. We must do so with an understanding that the Bible contains everything we need to know about running a nation. Any question we have on the subject is addressed in Scripture.

Sir Emeth Mimetes wrote:
The real problem is the authority of God's Word. If God's Word says something: that is the end of the deal. Period. So, if I can present a clear definition from the Bible of government that clearly excludes something (anything, including road-making and utility management) from government's duty,... the question has been answered.


Agreed to this. If the Bible says something about running a nation, even through a principle and not a command, we obey that exclusively. We must be sure that it is well founded in Scripture, but we do not need to go to history or secular sources and theories to see if we should obey it.

To address the Dr.
Dr. Hipopótamo wrote:
I'm not trying to argue tradition over scripture. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough. What I'm trying to say is that it seems like you're creating an artificial line of which issues have commands in scripture for them and which don't.
Here's what I mean: The Bible contains a clear command that the government should not kill innocent people (the command, "do not murder" applies to everyone, including government). The Bible contains no clear command about "Should government leaders get a paid vacation?" If you believe the Bible has a command about this, then I would like to see where. If you believe that this issue has no command, then you agree that some issues (like whether or not to kill a third of your citizens) are clear-cut right and wrong issues, and that others (like whether the leaders should get a paid vacation) are not right and wrong, but mere decisions that we have to make with the wisdom that God gives us, seeking His glory and the good of the nation. So there is a line between right-and-wrong issues, and non-right-and-wrong issues, even though running a government is a good work. After all, the Bible says Scripture will equip us for every good work, but not necessarily tell us exactly which good works to do or how to do them.

So my main question is "Where do you draw the line?" I try to draw the line by looking in the Bible for which issues have clear commands and which do not. "Thou shalt not murder" is pretty clear, but I don't see any command that says "Thou shalt not give thy president more than two weeks paid vacation, except for illnesses and holidays." Thus I conclude that the one is a right-and-wrong issue, and the other is not. What you don't want to do is to start by asking, "Which issues are definite right-or-wrong issues and which ones are not?" if you decide this before you look at scripture, then when you look in scripture, you will be expecting to find commands on whatever issues you've decided are absolute right-and-wrong issues. And, since you expect to find a command, if you do not see one, you will interpret the absence of a command as a command. This would be a serious mistake, and I want to make sure we're not doing it.

So where do you draw the line? Another way to phrase the question would be "What's the difference between building roads and giving the president a paid vacation." The Bible doesn't directly address either issue, and in the former case, you see the absense of a command as a direct negative command, whereas in the latter case, you do not see any clear, definite command. (Or at least I'm assuming you don' -If I'm wrong please don't hesitate to correct me.)

The Bible does not have a Ten Commandment like command for every single situation we would ever encounter in life. That would be impractical, useless, and long. That does not mean that it doesn't tell us what to do for every single kind of situation we will ever encounter. Scripture doesn't have to give us a command for us to obey it. If this were true, much of the Bible would be useless.

The Bible doesn't say "Thou shalt not give thy president more than two weeks paid vacation, except for illnesses and holidays." However, it does contain plenty of information that tells us how to handle this situation. The only source we need to determine what would be the right thing to do here, is the Bible. I won't argue this specific example since it will go off topic. The point is not to show how the Bible addresses this situation, but rather to acknowledge that Scripture addresses every kind of situation and is fully sufficient for every kind of situation. You can argue the specific situations in the Utilities thread. There you will find that we found Scripture does specifically address road making.

To God be the glory,
-Caleb
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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:08 am

caleb wrote:

The Bible does not have a Ten Commandment like command for every single situation we would ever encounter in life. That would be impractical, useless, and long. That does not mean that it doesn't tell us what to do for every single kind of situation we will ever encounter. Scripture doesn't have to give us a command for us to obey it. If this were true, much of the Bible would be useless.

The Bible doesn't say "Thou shalt not give thy president more than two weeks paid vacation, except for illnesses and holidays." However, it does contain plenty of information that tells us how to handle this situation. The only source we need to determine what would be the right thing to do here, is the Bible. I won't argue this specific example since it will go off topic. The point is not to show how the Bible addresses this situation, but rather to acknowledge that Scripture addresses every kind of situation and is fully sufficient for every kind of situation. You can argue the specific situations in the Utilities thread. There you will find that we found Scripture does specifically address road making.

To God be the glory,
-Caleb

So, just to clarify what you're saying:
Do you believe that there is a right and wrong to every situation? Do you believe that there is a right and wrong answer to what kind of vacation the president should have? Do you believe that there is only one way to answer the question, "should government officials be appointed or elected" without violating God's moral will? Do you believe the same for every single issue, down to what college classes you take, or whether you should wear a red or blue sweater on a particular day? You say the Bible tells us what to do for every single situation. Is this what you mean, or am I misunderstanding you?

Just want to make sure I understand exactly what you're saying, before I reply.

In Christ,
Daniel

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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:33 am

Dr. Hipopótamo wrote:
So, just to clarify what you're saying:
Do you believe that there is a right and wrong to every situation?

No.

Dr. Hipopótamo wrote:
Do you believe that there is a right and wrong answer to what kind of vacation the president should have?

There is not a right or wrong kind of vacation for the office of president. Certain aspects of the vacation could be right or wrong, but that would go into an off topic discussion.

Dr. Hipopótamo wrote:
Do you believe that there is only one way to answer the question, "should government officials be appointed or elected" without violating God's moral will?


The debate between appointing and election officials is covered in a thread in the cellar, reserved for LL2.

Dr. Hipopótamo wrote:
Do you believe the same for every single issue, down to what college classes you take, or whether you should wear a red or blue sweater on a particular day?

No. As I've said, the Bible doesn't dictate what we should do in every single little situation. It tells us what we should do in every single kind of situation. It will guide us in wisdom to help us determine which college classes would be best to take and how to take them. It won't say "All you history majors need to take Western Civ. 1 & 2" ect. but it is sufficient in knowing whether or not college is necessary, how to go about getting the degree, etc. The Bible doesn't tell us what color shirt to wear, but certainly gives us sufficient information for what clothes we can wear with topics like modesty, appropriateness for occasions, etc.

The sufficiency of the Scripture doesn't lead to paranoia over "Am I in harmony with God's will?" but it isn't reserved for only matters of church and spiritual growth. The Bible is sufficient for telling us all we need to know about how to live including, family life, nation running, business ethics, educational practices, and every other area of life.

Dr. Hipopótamo wrote:
You say the Bible tells us what to do for every single situation. Is this what you mean, or am I misunderstanding you?

For every single kind of situation. Every single situation falls under a kind. The Bible addresses all of the kinds of situations, we must take every single situation and use its kind to glean the biblical information we need to apply. See my above post where I use the illustration of the Ark to explain this.

To God be the glory,
-Caleb
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Dr. Hipopótamo
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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:01 pm

O.K. Sorry about the misunderstanding. I think I'm understanding what you're saying a little better now.

So what's the difference between whether or not the government should kill innocent people and whether or not the government should give the president more than two weeks of vacation?

For the first issue, there is only one right answer. The government MUST NOT kill innocent people.
For the second issue, as you said, there is not a right or wrong kind of vacation. I believe God is more concerned here with the motives of the writers of the constitution than with what they decide.

For example: They could decide that "If a man shall not work, he shall not eat." So the president should be able to have as much vacation time as he wants, but no paid vacation. This may or may not be a good choice, but I don't think you could say it's a sin, if the decision is made for the right reasons. Or they could not respect all the work that it takes to be leader of a country, and any president who thinks he needs to take a vacation is lazy, so he can take the stupid vacation if he wants to, but no way is he getting paid. Even though the decision is the same, I think this is sinful, because it shows a lack of respect for the leader of the nation.
On the other hand, the writers of the constitution could decide that since the president is doing such hard work while he is working, he should only have to work for six months out of the year, and spend the rest of his time resting/studying and still get paid for a whole year, and there should be two presidents taking turns doing the job. This will also be good because it will keep one man from having too much power, and the president will make wiser decisions because of all the study time. Again, this may or may not be a good decision, but it is not a sin, whereas if the writers of the constitution thought, "There's a good chance that I might become president, and I want it to be easy, so I'm going to put it in the constitution that the president should have six months of rest/"study" time. It'll be great!" This is a sin. It is using the taxpayers' money to fund your own laziness.

I know this is a little off-topic for such a long illustration, but what I'm trying to show is that there are some issues that are clear-cut, right-and-wrong issues. If you murder someone, it doesn't matter what your motives were; you still killed them and violated God's commandment. But there are also issues like the president's vacation, in which the real right-and-wrong issue is not the final decision, but the motives for making it.

So my question is "What's the difference?" "How do we know which is which?" "Why do you say that it is always wrong for the government to use tax money to fund abortions, but that it is a matter of opinion whether the government should use tax money to fund a president's vacation?"

Of course I know that there is a difference that can be clearly discerned using scripture, but I would like to know how you would phrase the "method" of discerning which is which. I want to know this because whatever method you use here should be the same method used for more difficult questions like the question of whether the roads issue is a morality issue like killing is, or a wisdom issue like the presidents vacation is.

Hope I'm making sense. Smile
In Christ,
Daniel

_________________
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. (Ephesians 6: 12)
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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Sat Dec 19, 2009 3:28 pm

The point I'm making is that the Bible gives us everything we need to know to start and run a nation. Paying the president's vacation or not is not a sin issue, but this kind of issue is addressed in Scripture. The point is not to find what's right and wrong, but what is Biblical and what is not.

I don't believe "that it is always wrong for the government to use tax money to fund abortions, but that it is a matter of opinion whether the government should use tax money to fund a president's vacation?"

My method is to simply take each issue and find all of the instances in the Bible which address this issue directly or the kind of issue that it is. I look at the context and the intent of the passage to determine what is the best way to apply it. I also look at everything else, that I can, that the Bible says about government and put this issue through that grid. The Bible is fully sufficient in telling us how each kind of situation or issue should be handled. You can look in the Utilities and the OT Law threads to see me use this method. (By the way, in these threads, I haven't always used this method. You will see that I am weakest or wrong, though, when I don't. I'm still learning to use this for everything.)

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-Caleb
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