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Sir Emeth Mimetes
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PostSubject: Re: Legislature   Tue May 26, 2009 7:29 am

caleb wrote:
OK. Well, I agree will everything in those conclusions. I do think we can determine how case applications are made in another post; maybe one on judges.

To God be the glory,
-Caleb

I am glad you agree. There will be a "Liberty's Light 2" forum after this one has accomplished its mission. That one will deal with every nuance of a nation, including its making. This forum is concerned mainly with principles.

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I am Sir Emeth Mimetes (knighted to the warfare of truth by the calling of Christ, the Master of my order), and thus, though poorly is it ever met by my feeble abilities, is my mission: to combat those ideas that are rooted in mindsets that are contrary to my Master.
May I never forsake abiding in Him, and may His ways never cease to thrive within my heart, for He only is my strength and hope.
note: emeth is Hebrew for truth, right, faithful;
mimetes is Greek for an imitator or follower.
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Dr. Hipopótamo
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PostSubject: Re: Legislature   Tue May 26, 2009 2:32 pm

What about airport security rules? I'm still not convinced that these rules are wrong, as they can potentially save thousands of lives. Right now, taking a gun on an airplane isn't treated as a crime, because there is no punishment. So maybe it's not really a law, but a security regulation. Or maybe we could install anti-aircraft guns near every government building instead, but that seems a little extreme.

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PostSubject: Re: Legislature   Tue May 26, 2009 9:47 pm

Dr. Hipopótamo wrote:
What about airport security rules? I'm still not convinced that these rules are wrong, as they can potentially save thousands of lives. Right now, taking a gun on an airplane isn't treated as a crime, because there is no punishment. So maybe it's not really a law, but a security regulation. Or maybe we could install anti-aircraft guns near every government building instead, but that seems a little extreme.

Taking a gun on an airplane is a crime.
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Sir Emeth Mimetes
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PostSubject: Re: Legislature   Wed May 27, 2009 2:23 am

Dr. Hipopótamo wrote:
What about airport security rules? I'm still not convinced that these rules are wrong, as they can potentially save thousands of lives. Right now, taking a gun on an airplane isn't treated as a crime, because there is no punishment. So maybe it's not really a law, but a security regulation. Or maybe we could install anti-aircraft guns near every government building instead, but that seems a little extreme.

They might be wrong, they might be right. But that would be determined by the judges (or by us when we define crime). Or perhaps you meant this to be posted in the Prevention thread?

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I am Sir Emeth Mimetes (knighted to the warfare of truth by the calling of Christ, the Master of my order), and thus, though poorly is it ever met by my feeble abilities, is my mission: to combat those ideas that are rooted in mindsets that are contrary to my Master.
May I never forsake abiding in Him, and may His ways never cease to thrive within my heart, for He only is my strength and hope.
note: emeth is Hebrew for truth, right, faithful;
mimetes is Greek for an imitator or follower.
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Dr. Hipopótamo
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PostSubject: Re: Legislature   Thu May 28, 2009 9:24 pm

von wrote:
Dr. Hipopótamo wrote:
What about airport security rules? I'm still not convinced that these rules are wrong, as they can potentially save thousands of lives. Right now, taking a gun on an airplane isn't treated as a crime, because there is no punishment. So maybe it's not really a law, but a security regulation. Or maybe we could install anti-aircraft guns near every government building instead, but that seems a little extreme.

Taking a gun on an airplane is a crime.

Sir Emeth Mimetes wrote:
Dr. Hipopótamo wrote:
What about airport security rules? I'm still not convinced that these rules are wrong, as they can potentially save thousands of lives. Right now, taking a gun on an airplane isn't treated as a crime, because there is no punishment. So maybe it's not really a law, but a security regulation. Or maybe we could install anti-aircraft guns near every government building instead, but that seems a little extreme.

They might be wrong, they might be right. But that would be determined by the judges (or by us when we define crime). Or perhaps you meant this to be posted in the Prevention thread?


I see this as both a prevention issue and a law issue. A law restricting weapons in airplanes may not be an application of a specific law, but might still be necessary. There may be other cases like this, though right now, airplane security is the only case I can think of. So we might have to have some way to make rules like this in some circumstances.

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PostSubject: Re: Legislature   Fri May 29, 2009 2:05 am

Dr,

I believe that, if we define crime one way, taking guns on board planes would be a crime, and thus would be a matter for a case application. If we define crime another way, it will not be a crime, and will be made clear to be so via a case application. That all depends on the definition of crime. Does that make sense?

1. There must be an immutable constitutional law based off of the basic laws of God. This law is applicable in all cultures, times, and governments and cannot be reinterpreted or changed. This law is supreme above all actions of the government and is purposed to protect the people's rights that are within the government's jurisdiction. (Lex Rex- Law is king)

2. These constitutional laws are not subject to the rulings of judges, but rather govern the judges' decisions. The only "laws" that can be made by anyone by any method are what we call case applications: a ruling explaining how the constitution ought to be applied in a certain case. They do not supersede the constitutional law, they augment it, without overstepping its boundaries.

_________________
I am Sir Emeth Mimetes (knighted to the warfare of truth by the calling of Christ, the Master of my order), and thus, though poorly is it ever met by my feeble abilities, is my mission: to combat those ideas that are rooted in mindsets that are contrary to my Master.
May I never forsake abiding in Him, and may His ways never cease to thrive within my heart, for He only is my strength and hope.
note: emeth is Hebrew for truth, right, faithful;
mimetes is Greek for an imitator or follower.
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Dr. Hipopótamo
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PostSubject: Re: Legislature   Sat May 30, 2009 8:04 pm

I think what you're saying is that even we define crime so that taking a gun on a plane is not a crime, the judges can make it a crime because it is necessary to protect our security. Is that what you're saying? If so, I do agree that we would need to have this option. But I wouldn't leave the decision to one judge. That way the judges would have too much power. Maybe we could have some sort of committee for making new rules like traffic regulations or security precautions that are necessary because of new technologies. What thinkest you?

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PostSubject: Re: Legislature   Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:07 am

Dr. Hipopótamo wrote:
I think what you're saying is that even we define crime so that taking a gun on a plane is not a crime, the judges can make it a crime because it is necessary to protect our security. Is that what you're saying? If so, I do agree that we would need to have this option. But I wouldn't leave the decision to one judge. That way the judges would have too much power. Maybe we could have some sort of committee for making new rules like traffic regulations or security precautions that are necessary because of new technologies. What thinkest you?

I thinkest that we ought to defer this discussion to the Prevention thread. The judges will be bound by whatever we decide in there and in the Crime thread. That is what I meant to say.

_________________
I am Sir Emeth Mimetes (knighted to the warfare of truth by the calling of Christ, the Master of my order), and thus, though poorly is it ever met by my feeble abilities, is my mission: to combat those ideas that are rooted in mindsets that are contrary to my Master.
May I never forsake abiding in Him, and may His ways never cease to thrive within my heart, for He only is my strength and hope.
note: emeth is Hebrew for truth, right, faithful;
mimetes is Greek for an imitator or follower.
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caleb
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PostSubject: Re: Legislature   Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:29 pm

Jay has posted these conclusions for this post above, but I wanted to repost them here so everyone can signify whether or not they agree. If everyone can post their affirmation or declination, we can try to move this thread out and bring in a new one. Thanks everyone.

1. There must be an immutable constitutional law based off of the basic laws of God. This law is applicable in all cultures, times, and governments and cannot be reinterpreted or changed. This law is supreme above all actions of the government and is purposed to protect the people's rights that are within the government's jurisdiction. (Lex Rex- Law is king)

2. These constitutional laws are not subject to the rulings of judges, but rather govern the judges' decisions. The only "laws" that can be made by anyone by any method are what we call case applications: a ruling explaining how the constitution ought to be applied in a certain case. They do not supersede the constitutional law, they augment it, without overstepping its boundaries.


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-Caleb
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Peter G.
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PostSubject: Re: Legislature   Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:00 pm

I think I agree with the conclusion. (I'll just think on it more.)

However, I would just like to say something real quick and if you guys want to debate this or whatever its up to you.

I believe that God has instituted government into three branches.

For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is the king; it is [H]he who will save us. Isaiah 33:22

Under this light, do you think that God has instituted three sections of government? Also, God could have used the number three just like the Holy Trinity. (Not saying for sure, just a possibility.) Three parts, yet one whole. Each with certain responsibilities.

Just my thoughts.

In Christ,
Peter G.
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PostSubject: Re: Legislature   Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:13 pm

Peter G. wrote:
I think I agree with the conclusion. (I'll just think on it more.)

However, I would just like to say something real quick and if you guys want to debate this or whatever its up to you.

I believe that God has instituted government into three branches.

For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is the king; it is [H]he who will save us. Isaiah 33:22

Under this light, do you think that God has instituted three sections of government? Also, God could have used the number three just like the Holy Trinity. (Not saying for sure, just a possibility.) Three parts, yet one whole. Each with certain responsibilities.

Just my thoughts.

In Christ,
Peter G.

Good catch Peter. If you look at my latest post in the Forms of Government thread, you'll see that I also agree with a three branch system of government. However, I do not believe that legislature should be one of them. God is the only lawgiver. So I refer further discussion of this to the forms of government post. That's where we can discuss whether or not legislature is biblical. Are you still agreed to the conclusion?:

1. There must be an immutable constitutional law based off of the basic laws of God. This law is applicable in all cultures, times, and governments and cannot be reinterpreted or changed. This law is supreme above all actions of the government and is purposed to protect the people's rights that are within the government's jurisdiction. (Lex Rex- Law is king)

2. These constitutional laws are not subject to the rulings of judges, but rather govern the judges' decisions. The only "laws" that can be made by anyone by any method are what we call case applications: a ruling explaining how the constitution ought to be applied in a certain case. They do not supersede the constitutional law, they augment it, without overstepping its boundaries.


To God be the glory,
-Caleb
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PostSubject: Re: Legislature   Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:54 pm

I agree. However, you might want to put in for the first point:

Quote :
1. There must be an immutable constitutional law based off of the basic laws of God. This law is applicable in all cultures, times, and governments and cannot be reinterpreted or changed. This law is supreme above all actions of the government and is purposed to protect the people's rights that are within the government's jurisdiction. (Lex Rex- Law is king)

After, "reinterpreted or changed." add something about that it holds only within the land governed my the government or something like that.

What do you all think about that?

In Christ,
Peter G.
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PostSubject: Re: Legislature   Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:44 am

Greetings,

In this last bit of discussion, a question has come up which I believe results from a misunderstanding of our distinction between 'law' (delineated by us as 'constitutional law') and 'case applications.' The latter are binding only in certain situations, and within the nation that created them. It is, however, the godly duty of every nation to hold and maintain the constitutional laws, as the whole point of their existence is that they are above every nation and legislature.

The branches of government is a subject that borders on that reserved for LL2.

I agree with the above conclusion. Smile

With joy and peace in Christ,
Jay Lauser

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I am Sir Emeth Mimetes (knighted to the warfare of truth by the calling of Christ, the Master of my order), and thus, though poorly is it ever met by my feeble abilities, is my mission: to combat those ideas that are rooted in mindsets that are contrary to my Master.
May I never forsake abiding in Him, and may His ways never cease to thrive within my heart, for He only is my strength and hope.
note: emeth is Hebrew for truth, right, faithful;
mimetes is Greek for an imitator or follower.
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PostSubject: Re: Legislature   Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:51 pm

I also agree with the above conclusion. Smile

Blessings,
Hannah

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PostSubject: Re: Legislature   Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:25 am

Well, sorry to be so... redundant, but I also agree. Smile

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