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 What is Life?

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von



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PostSubject: Re: What is Life?   Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:31 am

Sir Emeth Mimetes wrote:
von wrote:
Assuming by 'legally' you mean 'according to Gods law'.

Von,

According to God's law as relating to the civil magistrate's jurisdiction. Right. Legally meaning when the civil magistrate should consider a person as dead.

I am thinking about deciding to take this discussion and pass it off to a research committee. The committee would go figure out what it needs to decide, then it would do the necessary biblical and medical research needed to come to a definite conclusion. They would also do research to find out if someone has already figured this out. The committee would be given a dedicated room on this forum. What do you all think?

With joy and peace in Christ,
Jay Lauser

ROTFL.

A forum with about 12 members most of whom are under 20 setting up a "research committee".

Anyway, that's fine....



Von
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Sir Emeth Mimetes
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PostSubject: Re: What is Life?   Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:09 am

Greetings,

I will start the thread on it in the Act Room then. Von, I want you on it if you have time. Wink

With joy and peace in Christ,
Jay Lauser

_________________
I am Sir Emeth Mimetes (knighted to the warfare of truth by the calling of Christ, the Master of my order), and thus, though poorly is it ever met by my feeble abilities, is my mission: to combat those ideas that are rooted in mindsets that are contrary to my Master.
May I never forsake abiding in Him, and may His ways never cease to thrive within my heart, for He only is my strength and hope.
note: emeth is Hebrew for truth, right, faithful;
mimetes is Greek for an imitator or follower.
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von



Male Number of posts : 166
Age : 55
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PostSubject: Re: What is Life?   Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:56 pm

Sir Emeth Mimetes wrote:
Greetings,

I will start the thread on it in the Act Room then. Von, I want you on it if you have time. Wink

With joy and peace in Christ,
Jay Lauser

Thread in act room responded to.

Quote :
Having asked me to head up this team, I will propose some rules:

1) I will not be giving my own opinion until toward the end.
2) I will expect everyone to abide by the rules of my blog as well as the general rules of Christian civility.
3) I will expect all posts to proceed from the assumption that Scripture is inerrant, inspired, sufficient, and clear.
4) I propose that the posts move through three stages:
a) Greenlighting: Only positive posts, no interacting with others posts
b) Confirmation: After I announce that greenlighting is done, then one may agree or disagree with others.
c) Conclusion: I will write a final report; to which I will attach any minority reports and submit them together back to this board.

In Him,
Vaughn Ohlman EMT, LVN, BA, ACLS, PALS, BLS

PS. You may comment directly to my blog at:

http://vonstakes.blogspot.com/2009/03/when-does-life-end.html

For those who cannot do so for technical or moral reasons, please feel free to PM me with your post and I will post it for you. Pseudonyms may be used, and no personal information will be posted (by me).
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PostSubject: Re: What is Life?   Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:05 am

Conclusion:

We have concluded that:

1) Life begins at conception

2) Human life (as separate from animal life) is valuable because God made it so and said it is.

Whether or not capitol punishment is right was referred to a new thread. When life ends was referred to a research committee.

What is left of this discussion can be moved to the archives if all is in favor.

With joy and peace in Christ,
Jay Lauser

_________________
I am Sir Emeth Mimetes (knighted to the warfare of truth by the calling of Christ, the Master of my order), and thus, though poorly is it ever met by my feeble abilities, is my mission: to combat those ideas that are rooted in mindsets that are contrary to my Master.
May I never forsake abiding in Him, and may His ways never cease to thrive within my heart, for He only is my strength and hope.
note: emeth is Hebrew for truth, right, faithful;
mimetes is Greek for an imitator or follower.
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caleb
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PostSubject: Re: What is Life?   Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:11 am

Sounds good to me. I think we can bring in a new definition. (Unless you want to do that after the research committee finishes their assignment.)

To God be the glory,
-Caleb
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PostSubject: Re: What is Life?   Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:17 am

let's wait until a few more people agree. Smile Then we can archive it.

_________________
I am Sir Emeth Mimetes (knighted to the warfare of truth by the calling of Christ, the Master of my order), and thus, though poorly is it ever met by my feeble abilities, is my mission: to combat those ideas that are rooted in mindsets that are contrary to my Master.
May I never forsake abiding in Him, and may His ways never cease to thrive within my heart, for He only is my strength and hope.
note: emeth is Hebrew for truth, right, faithful;
mimetes is Greek for an imitator or follower.
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Hannah Marie
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PostSubject: Re: What is Life?   Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:34 am

I am in agreement with Jay's conclusion.

In Christ,
Hannah

_________________
If you accept my words and store up my commands within you, turning your ear to wisdom and applying your heart to understanding, and if you call out for insight and cry aloud for understanding; and if you look for it as for silver and search for it as hidden treasure, then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God. Proverbs 2:1-5
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von



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PostSubject: Re: What is Life?   Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:12 pm

Sir Emeth Mimetes wrote:
Conclusion:

We have concluded that:

1) Life begins at conception

2) Human life (as separate from animal life) is valuable because God made it so and said it is.

Whether or not capitol punishment is right was referred to a new thread. When life ends was referred to a research committee.

What is left of this discussion can be moved to the archives if all is in favor.

With joy and peace in Christ,
Jay Lauser

D'accord
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Jonathan S.
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PostSubject: Re: What is Life?   Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:18 pm

I agree with the conclusion. Hoorah!

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For God has not given us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power and love and discipline. --2 Tim 1:7
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Dr. Hipopótamo
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PostSubject: Re: What is Life?   Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:54 pm

I agree with the conclusion. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: What is Life?   Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:50 am

Greetings,

This thread is back online because of a discussion/debate I had with somebody who said she agreed that life started at conception, but claimed that conception was when the mother first felt the baby move (what she called 'quickening'). I of course disagreed, claiming that the conception we were talking about was when the egg was fertilized. I wanted to bring this back up to make sure that we all are agreed on this definition of conception. We do not need to make another conclusion, we just need to append what we mean by conception. Here is my argument that terminated the debate:

I wrote:
I read the article, and found it very interesting. Here are my ideas regarding it and how we ought to use the idea of quickening.

1) In Blackstone’s time, quickening was the only reliable legal way of knowing that a baby was, in fact alive. And, since a person was innocent until proven guilty, one could not legally accuse someone of manslaughter unless it was absolutely certain that the person had, indeed slain a living human being. In current day legal situations, the opposite is true: it is possible to know that a person is alive well before the ‘quickening.’

2) It is completely obvious to me, at least, that it is murder to kill a human who is alive. So to deal with the idea of abortion and similar situations, one must conclude when a fetus is both alive and a human at the same time.

3) We can be utterly certain of this fact scientifically and Biblically: an individual human is created when the sperm fertilizes the egg. The DNA is utterly unique and distinct from the mother’s and the father’s, and all that the baby does from that point on is grow. So at all points past the fertilization (what we called the conception) a fetus is a human in its own right.

4) There is no point in any part of the fetus’s development in which it ‘becomes’ alive. If it was alive when it moved (the ‘quickening’), then it was alive the day before that, and the day before that. There is no point at which any part of that fetus’ life to which you could point to and say “that is when it became alive.” Even the sperm and the egg before they were fertilized were alive in their own right, and when they joined, they were still alive.

5) Thus we can determine that conception (if you are using conception as the word to describe the moment in which the life of a new human being begins) occurs at the fertilization of the egg by the sperm. Not at the ‘quickening.’

What are your thoughts?

Here is a link to our debate. She brought my attention to the article by a comment on our blog. After that last comment I made she informed me via email that, in effect, she was conceding the battle.

With joy and peace in Christ,
Jay Lauser

_________________
I am Sir Emeth Mimetes (knighted to the warfare of truth by the calling of Christ, the Master of my order), and thus, though poorly is it ever met by my feeble abilities, is my mission: to combat those ideas that are rooted in mindsets that are contrary to my Master.
May I never forsake abiding in Him, and may His ways never cease to thrive within my heart, for He only is my strength and hope.
note: emeth is Hebrew for truth, right, faithful;
mimetes is Greek for an imitator or follower.
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caleb
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PostSubject: Re: What is Life?   Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:15 am

I agree that conception is when the sperm and the egg join. This is when life begins. The joined sperm and egg is a living baby.

To God be the glory,
-Caleb
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Dr. Hipopótamo
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PostSubject: Re: What is Life?   Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:02 pm

Sir Emeth Mimetes wrote:
Greetings,

This thread is back online because of a discussion/debate I had with somebody who said she agreed that life started at conception, but claimed that conception was when the mother first felt the baby move (what she called 'quickening'). I of course disagreed, claiming that the conception we were talking about was when the egg was fertilized. I wanted to bring this back up to make sure that we all are agreed on this definition of conception. We do not need to make another conclusion, we just need to append what we mean by conception. Here is my argument that terminated the debate:

I wrote:
I read the article, and found it very interesting. Here are my ideas regarding it and how we ought to use the idea of quickening.

1) In Blackstone’s time, quickening was the only reliable legal way of knowing that a baby was, in fact alive. And, since a person was innocent until proven guilty, one could not legally accuse someone of manslaughter unless it was absolutely certain that the person had, indeed slain a living human being. In current day legal situations, the opposite is true: it is possible to know that a person is alive well before the ‘quickening.’

2) It is completely obvious to me, at least, that it is murder to kill a human who is alive. So to deal with the idea of abortion and similar situations, one must conclude when a fetus is both alive and a human at the same time.

3) We can be utterly certain of this fact scientifically and Biblically: an individual human is created when the sperm fertilizes the egg. The DNA is utterly unique and distinct from the mother’s and the father’s, and all that the baby does from that point on is grow. So at all points past the fertilization (what we called the conception) a fetus is a human in its own right.

4) There is no point in any part of the fetus’s development in which it ‘becomes’ alive. If it was alive when it moved (the ‘quickening’), then it was alive the day before that, and the day before that. There is no point at which any part of that fetus’ life to which you could point to and say “that is when it became alive.” Even the sperm and the egg before they were fertilized were alive in their own right, and when they joined, they were still alive.

5) Thus we can determine that conception (if you are using conception as the word to describe the moment in which the life of a new human being begins) occurs at the fertilization of the egg by the sperm. Not at the ‘quickening.’

What are your thoughts?

Here is a link to our debate. She brought my attention to the article by a comment on our blog. After that last comment I made she informed me via email that, in effect, she was conceding the battle.

With joy and peace in Christ,
Jay Lauser


The egg and sperm are "alive" before conception, but are not human. I do agree that the zygote is both alive and human.

_________________
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. (Ephesians 6: 12)
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PostSubject: Re: What is Life?   Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:14 am

Dr. Hipopótamo wrote:

The egg and sperm are "alive" before conception, but are not human. I do agree that the zygote is both alive and human.

Meaning that you agree that conception, as the beginning of a new human life, is at the moment of fertilization?

_________________
I am Sir Emeth Mimetes (knighted to the warfare of truth by the calling of Christ, the Master of my order), and thus, though poorly is it ever met by my feeble abilities, is my mission: to combat those ideas that are rooted in mindsets that are contrary to my Master.
May I never forsake abiding in Him, and may His ways never cease to thrive within my heart, for He only is my strength and hope.
note: emeth is Hebrew for truth, right, faithful;
mimetes is Greek for an imitator or follower.
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View user profile http://siremethmimetes.wordpress.com
Jonathan S.
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PostSubject: Re: What is Life?   Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:49 pm

I agree.

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PostSubject: Re: What is Life?   Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:48 pm

Sir Emeth Mimetes wrote:
Dr. Hipopótamo wrote:

The egg and sperm are "alive" before conception, but are not human. I do agree that the zygote is both alive and human.

Meaning that you agree that conception, as the beginning of a new human life, is at the moment of fertilization?
Yes

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PostSubject: Re: What is Life?   Sat Jun 06, 2009 3:01 am

Conclusion:

We have concluded that:

1) Life begins at conception.

2) Human life (as separate from animal life) is valuable because God made it so and said it is.

3) Conception is the point of fertilization of the egg by the sperm.

Whether or not capital punishment is right was referred to a new thread. When life ends was referred to a research committee.

What is left of this discussion can be moved to the archives if all is in favor.

With joy and peace in Christ,
Jay Lauser

_________________
I am Sir Emeth Mimetes (knighted to the warfare of truth by the calling of Christ, the Master of my order), and thus, though poorly is it ever met by my feeble abilities, is my mission: to combat those ideas that are rooted in mindsets that are contrary to my Master.
May I never forsake abiding in Him, and may His ways never cease to thrive within my heart, for He only is my strength and hope.
note: emeth is Hebrew for truth, right, faithful;
mimetes is Greek for an imitator or follower.
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View user profile http://siremethmimetes.wordpress.com
caleb
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PostSubject: Re: What is Life?   Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:15 am

Agreed. How's the research committee coming? Do we need to try something else to determine death?
-Caleb
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PostSubject: Re: What is Life?   Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:22 am

caleb wrote:
Agreed. How's the research committee coming? Do we need to try something else to determine death?
-Caleb

That is next in line I think.

_________________
I am Sir Emeth Mimetes (knighted to the warfare of truth by the calling of Christ, the Master of my order), and thus, though poorly is it ever met by my feeble abilities, is my mission: to combat those ideas that are rooted in mindsets that are contrary to my Master.
May I never forsake abiding in Him, and may His ways never cease to thrive within my heart, for He only is my strength and hope.
note: emeth is Hebrew for truth, right, faithful;
mimetes is Greek for an imitator or follower.
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View user profile http://siremethmimetes.wordpress.com
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