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 Defining a Citizen

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caleb
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PostSubject: Re: Defining a Citizen   Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:08 am

OK, Jay, so what do we discuss here, and where do we discuss the voting and holding office issue. I would agree that women should not hold office as this is a headship role, however, I do believe that women should be able to vote. Women are equal in value and privileges to men, however, they have different roles. I believe that women voting doesn't put her in a headship role, but does give human equality. I think that restricting the vote to men gives a privilege to men which shouldn't be given them over women.

To God be the glory,
-Caleb
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Sir Emeth Mimetes
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PostSubject: Re: Defining a Citizen   Thu Nov 26, 2009 8:34 am

caleb wrote:
OK, Jay, so what do we discuss here, and where do we discuss the voting and holding office issue. I would agree that women should not hold office as this is a headship role, however, I do believe that women should be able to vote. Women are equal in value and privileges to men, however, they have different roles. I believe that women voting doesn't put her in a headship role, but does give human equality. I think that restricting the vote to men gives a privilege to men which shouldn't be given them over women.

To God be the glory,
-Caleb

Here is where we discuss what a citizen is (and isn't). I simply mentioned holding office and voting because I saw that, logically, no matter what we decide about those, we cannot say that citizenship is defined by being able to do either of those things.

We have a thread already in the Queue for Women's roles in government. But we need one on Representation, which will cover the issue of voting in general. You can write that one if you want.

_________________
I am Sir Emeth Mimetes (knighted to the warfare of truth by the calling of Christ, the Master of my order), and thus, though poorly is it ever met by my feeble abilities, is my mission: to combat those ideas that are rooted in mindsets that are contrary to my Master.
May I never forsake abiding in Him, and may His ways never cease to thrive within my heart, for He only is my strength and hope.
note: emeth is Hebrew for truth, right, faithful;
mimetes is Greek for an imitator or follower.
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caleb
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PostSubject: Re: Defining a Citizen   Fri Nov 27, 2009 7:35 am

Sir Emeth Mimetes wrote:
Here is where we discuss what a citizen is (and isn't). I simply mentioned holding office and voting because I saw that, logically, no matter what we decide about those, we cannot say that citizenship is defined by being able to do either of those things.

We have a thread already in the Queue for Women's roles in government. But we need one on Representation, which will cover the issue of voting in general. You can write that one if you want.

So, are you saying that you can vote or hold office because you are a citizen, not; you are a citizen because you can vote or hold office? (Use a Ven diagram to figure out this last statement.) In other words, voting and holding offices are privileges which are exclusively given to citizens, but a person can be a citizen and not be able to do these things? Just trying to figure out where this post is going. Sorry if I'm to hard to understand here.

To God be the glory,
-Caleb
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Hannah Marie
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PostSubject: Re: Defining a Citizen   Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:11 am

caleb wrote:
Sir Emeth Mimetes wrote:
Here is where we discuss what a citizen is (and isn't). I simply mentioned holding office and voting because I saw that, logically, no matter what we decide about those, we cannot say that citizenship is defined by being able to do either of those things.

We have a thread already in the Queue for Women's roles in government. But we need one on Representation, which will cover the issue of voting in general. You can write that one if you want.

So, are you saying that you can vote or hold office because you are a citizen, not; you are a citizen because you can vote or hold office? (Use a Ven diagram to figure out this last statement.) In other words, voting and holding offices are privileges which are exclusively given to citizens, but a person can be a citizen and not be able to do these things? Just trying to figure out where this post is going. Sorry if I'm to hard to understand here.

To God be the glory,
-Caleb

If I understood completely what you said, exactly! Smile

Blessings,
Hannah

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If you accept my words and store up my commands within you, turning your ear to wisdom and applying your heart to understanding, and if you call out for insight and cry aloud for understanding; and if you look for it as for silver and search for it as hidden treasure, then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God. Proverbs 2:1-5
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Sir Emeth Mimetes
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PostSubject: Re: Defining a Citizen   Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:27 am

Hannah is right: exactly. Therefore, we can leave that out of the question, right?

_________________
I am Sir Emeth Mimetes (knighted to the warfare of truth by the calling of Christ, the Master of my order), and thus, though poorly is it ever met by my feeble abilities, is my mission: to combat those ideas that are rooted in mindsets that are contrary to my Master.
May I never forsake abiding in Him, and may His ways never cease to thrive within my heart, for He only is my strength and hope.
note: emeth is Hebrew for truth, right, faithful;
mimetes is Greek for an imitator or follower.
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Peter G.
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PostSubject: Re: Defining a Citizen   Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:30 pm

Well, if that is the case, therefore, we need to either move on and discuss other parts of citizenship, or write a conclusion. What would be the next point?

In Christ,
Peter G.
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Sir Emeth Mimetes
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PostSubject: Re: Defining a Citizen   Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:32 am

Well, we only have three left in our list:

  • being defended from attack and crime internally
  • being defended from attack and crime internationally
  • exemption from taxes/tribute (either strangers or citizens)


My father came up with a neat idea: have citizenship be a form of praise that the government uses to recognize those who work righteousness (among other criteria, of course). Though, that is more of a practical, LL2 sort of idea. Smile

These are the biggies, which I am going to have to post a Bible study on. But the basic sense of what I have been trying to display is that the Bible actually does not define Citizens. It really does not have that concept when it comes to civil government. It is there in church matters (members of the body of Christ and the congregation of Israel), but not in government.

This, when I discovered it, surprised me. You can have citizenship as more of a practical thing that helps you organize your actions, but it is not a required feature of biblical government. Does that make sense?

_________________
I am Sir Emeth Mimetes (knighted to the warfare of truth by the calling of Christ, the Master of my order), and thus, though poorly is it ever met by my feeble abilities, is my mission: to combat those ideas that are rooted in mindsets that are contrary to my Master.
May I never forsake abiding in Him, and may His ways never cease to thrive within my heart, for He only is my strength and hope.
note: emeth is Hebrew for truth, right, faithful;
mimetes is Greek for an imitator or follower.
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View user profile http://siremethmimetes.wordpress.com
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